Ep #28: From Imbalance to Alignment with Shannon O'Toole
episode summary
Shannon O'Toole's journey is a testament to the power of aligning personal values with professional ambitions. We all have values - the ideas or beliefs that motivate us to act in certain ways. Living in alignment with our values requires a lot of reflection and intentionality, but doing so helps guide us through setbacks and decision-making and ultimately helps us live a life we're proud of.
Shannon turned an unexpected job loss into her dream career by following her intuition and living out her values. Her story is so encouraging and inspiring!
Featured on the Show
The Good Life Group Coaching waitlist
The Gap and The Gain by Dan Sullivan
Shannon O'Toole Coaching
For the full show notes and transcript, head over here.
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CHAPTERS:
1:31 - Introductions
7:04 - Values & Intuition
18:18 - The Gap and The Gain
20:57 - Living Authentically
listen to the episode:
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Michelle: 0:04
Hey, I'm Michelle Gauthier and you're listening to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast. Hey, thanks for joining today. Before I jump into this awesome interview with my former client, Shannon, I just want to remind you that the waitlist for the Good Life Group coaching is open right now. If you get on the waitlist for this group coaching, it gives you two perks. One is $200 off the investment for group coaching, which is awesome, and number two is you'll be the first one to be notified. So it opens on October 23rd, next Monday, and when you sign up, you will get that first email that other people who aren't on the list will not get. I'm limiting the group size and I think it's going to fill up quickly. So if you're on the waitlist, you could be one of the first ones to sign up and get $200 off and then just stop worrying about all the changes that you want to make in your life, because you are going to do them with me, step by step, with me and a bunch of other amazing women. It's linked in the show notes. Just click there, get on the waitlist and you will get your email next Monday. See you then. Today, I have a friend of mine and a former client, Shannon O'Toole. She is going to tell us a little bit about her experience with coaching, what she learned and where she is now. So, Shannon, can you just introduce yourselves to everybody, sort of tell them I don't know where you live, what you do, who you help, that kind of stuff.
Shannon: 1:31
Well, good morning, hi, Michelle. Thanks for having me here today. What do I do? So, I am a business coach and an outsourced chief talent officer, so I get to spend my days mostly helping people move their businesses forward, especially as it relates to their human capital, their talent, their people and how to make sure that they're engaging them and retaining them. So that's how I spend my business part of my day, but then I also get to be a mom and spend time with my awesome kids when I'm not working.
Michelle: 2:02
Yes, when you're not doing that, okay, great, and this is a business that you own and you started from scratch.
Shannon: 2:10
Yes, and I am based in St Louis, but I have clients all over the country. I would say about half of my clientele are here in St Louis. Well, maybe even a little bit less, then the rest are all in different places around the States.
Michelle: 2:25
Okay, me too.
Shannon: 2:26
It's so much fun, I think, being able to talk to people all over, yes, until it's like freezing here and they're like sitting in the sunshine.
Michelle: 2:33
Yeah, that's when you go visit your California clients, right? Yes, Florida, wherever the warm ones are, exactly Okay. So let's get started about what made you want to hire a coach. Tell us a little bit about what your situation was if you had a coach before. Give us a little bit of background.
Shannon: 2:51
Yeah, so it was. Let's see April 2020, a few weeks into the world shutting down because of the COVID pandemic, and I very unexpectedly lost my big corporate job as a Chief Talent Officer for a big wealth management company. And it had been a huge - probably too big - of a part of my life for the last 13 years and something that I had given a ton of my time and talent to and, honestly, it was like a big part of what defined me. And so to lose that job unexpectedly and to be in a spot of like "okay, what's next? Was, frankly, like a pretty traumatic experience for me. I took that summer to have what my kids had always asked for, which was a normal summer, like not having to get up and go to camp every day, but just like get up and get to be lazy and be kids and go to the pool, even though it was in the midst of a pandemic. We did our best and I really thought about what I wanted next and my parents were entrepreneurs and I had thought a lot about coaching and consulting and, frankly, it was something that I didn't think I was going to do until my kids were older at that time, they were all teenagers and preteens. But after spending you know, at that point it had been like 20 years in HR and talent management, I knew that there was a need out in the world for smaller companies who don't need to have their own dedicated HR professional or talent professional to get some help as it relates to building their business and making sure their people were engaged and retained. And so all of that to say is like, the idea was there. I had the support of many people in my network, both personally and professionally, to move this forward, but it was terrifying. You know, I'm not naturally a risk taker and so I think, inside of myself I felt like I had a good idea and I had the starting of a business, but I didn't want to chicken out. And so I was, you know, talking to a friend about that fear of like, oh gosh, I'm not so sure I can do that, and he recommended you as a life coach and somebody who could probably help me with figuring out not only like what I wanted to do in my business, but not letting the inner imposter syndrome take over and really drive me to getting started and not run down the road of like, "oh, I'm not good enough. I'm not perfect enough, I don't have every element of my business figured out, and so when I originally reached out to you, I was probably like that you're a classic overwhelmed, anxious, stuck spinning situation and just really wanted your help with getting clarity and moving forward.
Michelle: 5:40
Yeah, and I think it's important to note that. What you're saying is you had the experience, you knew how to do it, you knew there was a need in the market and you are a person who's super motivated, so not a person who's going to have trouble like doing a lot of work or getting started with something. So intellectually, it's like this is a complete home run. But I think it's really important to share with everyone, because I feel like this is so common, especially among women, that there was something in your mind that was like, oh, I don't, I don't think I can do this, though, even though all these you know I have the support, and I have all these things on my side, it just feels really freaking scary. At least, that's how I felt when I started my business too.
Shannon: 6:20
Yeah, it was a vulnerability that I had never experienced before. You know, I have experienced vulnerable situations in other ways, but this way of saying, you know, I have expertise and talent that someone should pay me for frankly, you know, because I can really help you that was a very vulnerable feeling.
Michelle: 6:39
Yeah, it's scary, it's really scary. I'm so glad you went for it, though you're so successful in it now. Okay, so then, once we got into coaching and you decided, okay, I'm gonna try to do this, I'm gonna do this coaching, how did you feel during coaching? Can you remember like certain things that were hard for you, certain things that just felt like they really hit the nail on the head? Just tell me a little bit about your experience when you first started coaching.
Shannon: 7:04
Yeah, so it's been like three years since you and I started working together. As I reflect back on all of the different things you know, yes, like you said, I did go for it. I did start my business and that has been a very rewarding experience for me. It's been really nice to be able to use my talents in a way that I think really aligns with my values and serves others at the same time, and that Values Inventory or that values alignment was something that you and I came back to a lot in our conversations of you saying you know "Remember, Shannon, that's something that you value and that is part of you know, make sure I was using those values and making decisions is something that I think you really helped me Understand the importance of that, and it's something that I use every single day in my life now. I mean every big decision I make, or even the small decisions, from who I work with as it relates to my clients, to how I schedule my time. You know, going back to the boundaries and learning how to say no to the things that you know don't serve me, or my values, how I go about working with clients. All of those things really go back to the values that you and I spent time Working on and making sure that I was aware of. That was a big part of the coaching experience for me. The other thing that you and I spent time on was this notion of me trusting my gut and following my intuition, and it was interesting, through the coaching process, how many times we went back to situations where I really had trusted my gut and intuition, all the way back to. you know, the initial like I think I have a business model that could actually be something. I just need to trust my gut and go for it. And along that path we came up with kind of this equation that was okay, I had a moment of, like my gut or my intuition told me something and I was pretty clear on what it was that I wanted. But I had to first take action, which was typically or sometimes a little scary and vulnerable to take that action, and then sometimes I had to sit in the discomfort of it. But I knew that through that discomfort on the other side of it I was gonna hopefully, you know, really get what I wanted, be aligned to my values, and have that clarity needed. But that's also kind of the formula or the the process that I go back to now, anytime that I'm feeling that intuition kick in.
Michelle: 9:38
That's so great and I think that's something that I talk about with every single client that I have and myself. I just talked to myself about this last week because when you're doing something new, it is going to feel uncomfortable, period, but I think that because our brains always trying to keep us safe, the second we feel discomfort, we're like get me out of this, I don't want to be in this discomfort anymore. But sticking with it and just really sitting through it and doing it anyway usually is what brings about the best change. How could you tell if it was that kind of discomfort or the discomfort of like no, this isn't good, this isn't safe, this is the wrong thing?
Shannon: 10:17
Yeah, I think for me, you know, and not to like keep bringing going back to my values, but I think that is a big piece of it is that in that moment of discomfort I have to say, like, is what I am hoping for this situation, for the outcome to be aligned with my values, and that usually, like, lets me know if I want to push through the discomfort or not. That's to your point. There is certainly that feeling of fight or flight that comes into play where it's like ah, okay, never mind, I don't like this.
Michelle: 10:44
Yeah, exactly that can happen too, for sure. But I think if your gut has given you a yes, specifically yours, because we've worked so much on this that your gut is actually always giving you the right answer. So if it tells you yes and you decide to take action on it, you can kind of expect that discomfort to come next, just as part of the process.
Shannon: 11:03
That expectation is so helpful, right, like okay you're, you're going to move forward. So now you know from past experience that it might be a little uncomfortable, but you know that that's just part of the process and on the other side of that discomfort Is something really really good. So just sitting it a little bit longer, don't run, don't fight, just a little bit longer.
Michelle: 11:28
Yes, and then you will be just fine on the other side, in fact, way better off probably than you were before. You've mentioned your values a couple times. Is there a specific value or values that you can give us an example of, like something that you're putting all of your decisions through?
Shannon: 11:43
Yeah, that is a good question. I mean, I think this notion of balance has been a value that you and I have come back to frequently and it shows up in so many parts of my life. But you know, I would say I did not necessarily have the most balanced life when I was doing my big corporate job. I probably put a lot of hours in at work that could have been maybe better balanced with my family and my kiddos. But now when I'm looking through the value of, you know, balance and boundaries, it just makes it easier to do things like I've established what hours I see clients. I have very set hours that I see clients in and what I've noticed is that when I explain to my clients these are my hours, for this reason, I'm a single mom, so I only have my kids 50% of the time and on the days that I have them and they come home from school, I want to be available in that 30 minutes of everyone walking in the door to hear about their days. It's just crazy how much more they talk about their days in that first 30 minutes than when we're sitting down for dinner. Yeah, it's like they've got lots to say, but when you get to dinner they're like "I don't know.
Michelle: 12:56
Yeah, "how was school Fine? Yes, I agree, my daughter comes in the door and comes and sits down in my office and it's always when I'm in the middle of something not a client, but working on something and I've just learned to turn away from my computer and listen to the whole thing because it's the only chance I know it's not coming back around again. That's great.
Shannon: 13:17
And we're home now. It's interesting how my youngest son, who's 13, will ask me almost every day when I pick him up from school do you have calls when we get home, and if I say yes, he almost like is a little bit sad because I'm going to be closing my door and not available. But even I'm in my office with the door open. It's like that availability just makes him so much happier that I it's probably that he wants me to feed him, or can get him, whatever it is, but there's a little subtle difference, but anyway, that just goes back to really feeling confident that I am making decisions around even my work schedule and my calendar.
Michelle: 13:57
Yeah, and I'll speak for myself here, but I found that turning down a client, for example, who can only meet at 5 PM or a time that I don't meet, it's tough because the goal of having a business is to help people and make money and if you're turning that away it always feels a little uncomfortable, like we talked about. But if you're going towards your values of what I really want is this balance, what I've seen is it always works out anyway. You know, maybe the next day I'll find somebody who wants to meet at 11 and it works great with my schedule or whatever it is. Have you experienced that too?
Shannon: 14:30
I definitely have, and I think it also leads me to working with clients that we have more similar values. And so, for example, my filter is always very much up that if I'm going to work with somebody on building the culture and their talent program within their organization, their team, their people truly has to be their first priority. They can't just say that it's their first priority. I can tell through their words and actions that it's not actually their first priority, and so that in itself has been a good filter, because somebody who doesn't truly believe their people or their first priority is not going to enjoy working with me. They're going to be like, ok, yeah, we're not doing that, we're not putting time and energy into all those touchy-feely things that you want to do for our culture. It's not going to be a good match. And so if up front we can just identify like that our values are more aligned as it relates to how they feel about their people as their greatest asset in their company, we'll probably have a lot better working relationship.
Michelle: 15:33
Yeah, that's perfect. That's how you know you're in alignment, which makes them an excellent client for you. That's perfect. Can you think about which change or concept was the hardest for you Sometimes? I mean, there are some that I still have to work on five, six years later. There are just certain things that are so deeply ingrained. We have to learn them and learn them and learn them again. It sounds like you've got the values thing nailed, sitting through discomfort, great, check. Is there anything that remains or anything that you found really hard?
Shannon: 16:01
Well, I'm a perfectionist and I can have every sticky note on my computer that I would love to have of, you know, "it's good enough for now. "on't let perfect be the enemy of good, all of those little stickies that, honestly, are right here on my computer, but it still can stop me in my tracks. You know, I often get tripped up with wanting to execute on a great idea but struggling to do it because my inner perfectionist gets in the way. You know, like, oh, it's not perfect yet, and I think that's something that I've continued to get better and better with. But it can slow me down from time to time, and I think you know, just remembering that it doesn't have to be perfect, I don't have to be perfect, is a good thought for me. To remember that, like, perfection isn't desired, nor is it possible, and so that shouldn't be the goal at the end of the day. So that goes back. You know, one of those thoughts that you and I talk about that leads to inaction or leads to I don't get the results I want, and so I have to change that thought so I make sure I can get to the outcome that I'm looking.
Michelle: 17:10
Yep, yep, so you can get going on it. I think perfectionism is a hard one to kick, because we've probably had it - at least in my case - for a really long time, so it just keeps coming back. I think, too, though, that your point is good, that you can notice that that comes up, but it doesn't have to completely stop you. For example, if you would have stuck 100% with perfectionist tendencies, you wouldn't have even started your business or, like, offered a new offering or, you know, gone and done something for the first time. So I think it's good to remember for everybody listening I would bet lots of people listening are perfectionists too that even though you have perfectionist tendencies, they also serve you in some ways, like that ability to want to do things really well and really care about your work, et cetera and there's a certain like tipping point where it becomes not good for you, and that's when you feel stuck. So I think your point was good that you can just think about it differently, remind yourself I don't have to be perfect and back it down enough so you can still do quality work, but not put yourself into freeze. Are there any tools or concepts that are sort of a go to for you when you get stuck.
Shannon: 18:18
So let's see, I would say a tool that I have used sometimes when I'm not giving myself credit for the work I have done, when my inner perfectionist is like you need to do more, that's not enough, is an exercise that you had me go through of every day writing down the gains of my day so not just the big gains, all of the gains of the day, from anything from I made it to the gym as I had planned, I actually cooked dinner versus ordered dinner, I connected with a client, I got a lead - all the gains of my day. Writing those down and then reflecting on, wow, how much I did get done and how much impact I did have in that day, instead of just looking at the gaps and saying, oh, I could have done more, or did I do enough in that situation, has been a really good tool to help me reframe that I am having productive days, that I am getting a lot done, even though maybe, at the end of the day, not every single thing is crossed off my to-do list. But I did have a productive day and had gains and I used my talents to make happen.
Michelle: 19:30
Yes, I think that's awesome and I think, when you look at it that way, one of your gains will be oh, my son came in my office and we chatted while he had a snack, which reminds you that that's a gain too, and that is something that you're intentionally trying to create. So those concepts that we're talking about are from the book The Gap and The Gain. I think I've mentioned it on the podcast and I'll put the link in the show notes. But it's such a good book because the example that Shannon gave is really good. If you have 18 things on your to-do list and you do 16 of them, you can focus on those two that you didn't do and be like, oh, I didn't get everything done, I never get everything done. You can kind of go down that path. Or you can say, oh, I did these 16 things today and they're all aligned with my values and they're all you know. Many of them were things I enjoyed, et cetera. So it's really just flipping the way you're thinking about it without even having to change what you did. That is a great answer, thank you. I wish everyone would read that book. I should do a whole episode just on the concepts from that. It's so good.
Shannon: 20:25
It's a huge mindset shift.
Michelle: 20:27
Yes, it can be life-changing. Okay, and what about when you were finishing up coaching and how you've been doing since then? So we didn't coach for a while two years maybe, like you finished, started your business, then you kind of got to the next level and the next level in your business and then you came back for a couple months and then now we're not coaching together. So how is your life now? Tell us about some of the results you've gotten and how things are going for you.
Shannon: 20:57
Yeah, we'll start with the fact that I could probably have a coaching call with you every single day. That would make me even happier. I'll start with that. But I would say, as I reflect on how coaching has helped me in my life right now, I would say I just feel like I'm living more authentically now, and some of that's the gift of maturation and the gift of going through experiences on your journey. But I think one of the things that coaching did was just really allow me to evaluate that journey from a really non-judgmental space, which I needed right, because I'm my biggest critic and I also, I think, as we identified through the gap in the gain exercise, sometimes live in that gap of what else could be done, and if you get stuck in that space, then you're not living a present life. You're just thinking about what else could be or what else you could do, and missing all of the wins along the way and all of the little moments of joy and grace along the way. And so I think those exercises and that reflection has just led me to a space of being more present in my day-to-day life. My level of anxiety is much lower than it was, especially when I was in my corporate job. My values really are at the core of how I live my life on a daily basis, whether it's in my business or in my personal life. I think another big thing that you helped me understand is that drive and my sense of ambition doesn't always have to be related to work, that I can be driven about my relationship with my kids, about my friendships, about my relationship with my partner, about traveling, about working out. I can balance my drive and my ambition and other ways in my life. That just doesn't have to be work focused. That was a shift for me, because it felt like I was taking my foot off the pedal, to not want to continue to work 60 hours a week or whatever I used to do. Yes, if that's a more balanced, that has been a shift, but it's one that I would say has just really made my life feel a lot more complete and balanced.
Michelle: 23:16
That's awesome. You're trusting your gut, you're living authentically, and I feel like we can't have balance - in a permanent way, like we buy it at the store and we have - but you're consistently working on and feeling balanced a lot of the time. Is that fair to say?
Shannon: 23:34
I would say that is very fair. I live with the thoughts of a daily basis of, and I'm in control of that. If I fall out of balance or I'm not feeling balanced, well it's okay, just reevaluate and get back in. It's not concrete, it's not stuck.
Michelle: 23:52
Yes, that is such a good tip. The next thing I was going to ask you is if you have a tip for people. Maybe you have another one, but that is such a good one. If you're feeling today that you are completely out of balance, okay, it's just today, it's in your control. You probably made some choices. You don't have to make them again tomorrow. Everything's okay. You can start fresh where I used to feel like I'm just so out of balance and overwhelmed, just period, just every day the same. That is such good advice. I love the way you said that.
Shannon: 24:22
Well, there's a reason I have the word grace tattooed on my wrist. That is literally I'll give myself that grace. Yes, we're often very good of giving those things to other people, but it's always like, okay, wait that question of what would your best friend tell you to do? Well, you're telling you to give yourself some grace and cut yourself a little bit of slack. Yeah, I think that's part of it.
Michelle: 24:46
Yeah.
Shannon: 24:47
I'm living with more intention around what I can do, who I can be, and that I'm enough.
Michelle: 24:55
That makes life a lot more enjoyable. Yes, I'm enough. If we could all just believe that in our soul we would be so much better off. That is also not an easy one. It's like perfectionism. If you've had a job like you had in the corporate world and you attach your enoughness to that, then you don't have that anymore than you've got to work to create this other business to make sure you're like you're always fighting for enoughness if it comes from that, and so you just saying I'm enough, just as is, is amazing.
Shannon: 25:24
Well, thank you for helping me get to that point.
Michelle: 25:27
Yes. Is there anything else you want to say, suggest, tell people? That was great advice that you just gave them. So don't feel pressured that you have to come up with anything else. But is there anything else you wanted to say?
Shannon: 25:41
I think the only other thing I would say is like oftentimes people say like well, why coaching? Like or how is coaching different from counseling? And my definition of coaching is about helping someone move forward, so to get out of the overwhelm or to get out of the stock and to move forward. And in my world that typically is focused on their business, but frequently that also is about them as a person. But I think that is your great gift. Well, you have many great gifts, but that's one of them. Is it was always like okay, how are you going to use those thoughts or those feelings to feel you forward? What are you going to do next? And just a little homework assignments you give along the way and things like that. It just really kept propelling me forward and that was really important on my journey and will continue to be.
Michelle: 26:30
Oh good, thank you. Thank you, yeah, and I think it's important to note too that you also I mean, you're more of a business coach, but you also do coaching but you need a coach and I'm a coach and I coach you, but I also have a coach. It's like we all need somebody outside of our brain at different times to point out what seems obvious to them but not to us. So I think, even though it feels vulnerable, it's so important for us all to do that when we feel like we're struggling with something, just to reach out and get somebody, whoever that person is, to help you move forward.
Shannon: 27:05
Yes, we should all be assigned a coach when we're born.
Michelle: 27:08
Yeah, exactly here she is or he is, here's your person. Okay, so tell us a little bit about your business and more about who you work with and where people can find you, in case they're like, oh, I need that. I mean, just based on what you've said already, I feel like people who want to take care of their people and create a culture. They are understanding that you are the person to help them do that. Right, so is there a specific industry? Tell us more about who you're exactly looking for for your perfect clients.
Shannon: 27:39
Thank you for asking. Let me start with that so you can find me on my website. It's pretty straightforward If you just Google my name and which is Shannon O'Toole and coaching. I didn't get really creative about my business name, but that's who I am. You can find me there. I focus my time really on, I would say, entrepreneurial leaders. So I mentioned earlier that you have to believe that your people are your greatest asset to your company. You have to have a desire to really put the energy and effort into making sure that they feel like they are an engaged member of the team, that they are getting clear expectations, they're getting feedback along the way. Those are the types of leaders that I enjoy working with. They're the ones that want to make sure that that is part of their culture for the individuals that work with them. So you mentioned I am a life coach by training and certainly I think in working with all of my clients there are some days when we just talk about how they feel being a leader. You hear often it's lonely at the top and I would say that's a commonality that a lot of my clients have is they just want a thought partner. They want somebody who is pushing them and helping, keep them accountable for growing their business and helping their teams. That is part of the reason why I'm so fortunate to get to work with people for as long as I do is. I get to become a member of their team and truly partner in their business, so feel very fortunate with the individuals I work with. I grew up in the wealth management industry, so about half of my clients are financial advisors or people who own smaller wealth management companies, but I've been fortunate to work in cross industries. The commonality is the leader who wants to engage their people.
Michelle: 29:27
Okay. Do they need to have a team of a certain size, or will you work with anybody?
Shannon: 29:32
I will work with anyone. I would say Most of my clients are probably between five and 50 employees, but I certainly have clients that have their organizations too.
Michelle: 29:44
Okay, perfect. So it sounds like it's more the alignment in terms of believing that your people are the most important thing. That's really who you're looking for. Yeah, it is definitely a part of it. Okay, we will put all that in the show notes so people can link to you If they're looking for your expertise. I can highly highly recommend her as a human, that's for sure. She's amazing. All right, I think that's it. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for listening to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast. If you want to learn more about my work, head over to my website at MichelleGauthier. com. See you next week.
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